TDM repair

[elizilla]

I finally got the TDM running. Go me!

Comments

[bikergeek.livejournal.com]

does this call for a Te Deum?

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

It was dead?

[elizilla]

Yeah, I replaced the emulsion tubes in May, and after that it didn't run. I set it aside to prepare for my trip, and then when I came home I didn't get back to it very quickly. But now the V-Strom is down as well, with a leaking radiator cap, so I had no running bikes. Once the choice is between wrenching and driving a cage, rather than between wrenching and riding, I became more motivated to wrench. :-)

So last night I replaced both the suspect fuel petcock AND the suspect fuel pump. And the TDM now runs reasonably well. I have a little lean popping on decel, and I think I need to synch the carbs, but all in all it's good.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

I'm missing out on all the fun, aren't I?

As for the carb sync... just take the bike to Ray's. I gave him my Morgan CarbTune II.

Hell, you should've taken it to Ray's to do the emulsion tubes--apparently the Suzuki GS1100G he rides now is known to have the same kind of problem as the TDM with things wearing inside the carbs. As long as you keep Ray focused on the job at hand, he can do a complete carb overhaul in a reasonable amount of time.

But enough kibbitzing. I'm happy the TDM is running; it's sweet ride. And I do miss wrenching at your place.

[elizilla]

It's kind of startling, to hear the fuel pump in there. I replaced the vacuum pump with a solenoid pump out of an R6, and wired it to come on when I turn on the ignition and the engine stop switch. So now, it's like the V-Strom, when I put the ket in and turn it, I hear the pump start up briefly and push fuel to the carbs. On the Strom the fuel pump makes a whining sound, but this pump makes a loud ticking sound. Still, the action is the same. On the Strom I have made a habit of turning on the bike, waiting for the sound to stop, then pressing the start button. This works on the TDM now too.

The bike never had a fuel gauge, and with the stock petcock gone, there's no reserve anymore. I just capped the spot where the non-reserve fuel draws, and hooked a hose to the reserve line. I will have to monitor fuel consumption for a while so I know how far to go before filling the gas tank. I suppose this is not a real change, since I ran it on reserve all the time in the past, simply because the vacuum pump couldn't recover in a reasonable time when the bike went to reserve, and I was tired of coasting to the side of the road and waiting ten minutes for it to start again every time it went to reserve, and it was going to reserve when it still had more than 1/3 of a tank left. I wonder if I can retrofit it with some sort of fuel gauge?

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

Why'd you get rid of the stock petcock?

And are you sure that the electric pump is pushing the same pressure as the vacuum pump was? I tried fitting a vacuum-operated pump to the Bandit to fix my weird early-switch-to-reserve problems, and it made the float heights way wrong, because there was so much more pressure in the line. (Of course, since you were just going from one pump to another, instead of from no pump to having one, this is less likely to be a problem.)

And you can always do an old fashioned fuel guage: tee into the fuel line before the pump and connect it to a bit of clear tubing that parallels the tank. The fuel in the clear bit of line will be at the same level as the fuel in the tank.

This is actually how I checked the fuel level in the float bowls when I was fiddling with putting a fuel pump on the Bandit.

[elizilla]

Retrofitting with this particular pump is a popular mod on the TDM list. Lots of people have done it and reported good results. No one has reported a float height issue. What would be the symptom of that, anyway? The bike runs, seems to run pretty good.

When I took things apart to get to the emulsion tubes, one of the things I did was to try to pull the fuel hoses off the petcock. Y'know the brass tubes that the hoses fit over? When I tried to pull the hose off, the tube came out altogther. I was able to push it back in, but it wouldn't stay in there. I tried gluing it with some gasoline resistant glue, but it didn't work; the tube still pulled out way too easily.

I tried to order another stock petcock, but they're discontinued. So I got a used one off of eBay but when I examined it, the seals looked marginal; I wasn't happy with it.

The aftermarket petcock seems to be a much more solid item. But it's simpler, just one line in, one line out. I put it very close to the tank, there's room there and I can easily access it by taking off the seat. I put the hose clamps on really tight, on the segment of hose between tank and petcock, and the hose between the petcock and everything else is easy to access.

The petcock has to come out with the tank, if I'm not going to spew gasoline all over everything. I needed four hands to get the tank off before, what with the rats nest of hoses leading down to the old petcock. Now when I have to take the tank off I can turn off the new petcock and disconnect it just downstream of the tank, and easily lift the tank off by myself. Even if I managed to find a good OEM petcock I think I would prefer to keep this one in there.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

So, how did you connect the new petcock to the tank? Did it mount into the tank?

If the bike idles fine, the float height is probably fine. And if others have gone there before you, forget I said anything.

[elizilla]

The R6 fuel pump I got off eBay came with hoses attached. I chose a section of that hose that was reinforced with some kind of stiffening stuff, and pre-bent with a 90 degree bend. I cut it to length, to place the petcock inline just two or three inches from the tank, and facing where I can easily reach it to turn it off. It's just dangling there on the hose, but it's a nice reinforced hose so I think it will be OK. This petcock has no mounting holes so I can't attach it to anything, but it's small and light so I don't think it will stress things too much with it just dangling there.

I saved all the hoses that I pulled out of the TDM, didn't cut anything up, so if I have to put that stuff back in I can. But judging from my test ride last night, I don't think I'll need them. Nonetheless I plan to bundle everything up and store it in a labeled box in my garage, so I can get it out again if I discover some terrible problem down the line. I used a sharpie to label every hose and the spot where it was attached, so I can put them back if I have to.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

I just went and looked at the parts fiche on PartFish, and am less baffled.

I assumed the petcock was like all the others I've worked on--integral to the pick-ups that mount in the tank. Apparently, on the TDM the pickups are a seperate unit and connect to the petcock by two hoses. One hose for the main pickup, the other for the reserve.

So, again assuming I understand this right, to which hose did you connect your current petcock, and what did you do with the other one?

[elizilla]

I connected the current petcock to the one that goes to the reserve side on the OEM petcock. I capped the other one with a rubber cap, and put a hose clamp on it for good measure so hopefully it won't come off or leak.

I figured out which one was reserve, by seeing which one still had fuel coming out when I was draining the last half gallon of gas out of the tank. Then I confirmed it after putting it all back together, by putting in less than a gallon of new gas for my test ride. It still ran, so I must have picked the right one.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

You know, looking back, you'd explained that before. I just didn't get it the first time through.

Anyway, why not just use two valves, or a three-way valve, and get the main v. reserve functionality back?

(I was going to link to a potentially appropriate three-way valve, but Swagelok's website just exploded.)

[elizilla]

If you find a potentially appropriate three way valve, let me know. I didn't find one but I'm sure there is one available somewhere.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

What you need is a three-way ball valve, such as this one from Swagelok.

Swagelok can be a little pricey, however. There may be ways around that, though.

Do you know what the outside diameter of your fuel line is? (Swagelok fittings are sized by OD.)

[elizilla]

BTW, if you're interested here's a writeup on the fuel pump swap, from one of the other TDM listers:

http://www.carpe-tdm.net/ipb/index.php?showtopic=201

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

If I try fiddling with the Bandit's fuel system again, maybe I should use an R6 pump.

[elizilla]

It looks about like a sabmag pump. I suspect it's a fairly generic item, with the only differences being the mounting bracketry.

[elizilla]

I have a mercury carb stick, so I can do the synch here. I didn't put the bodywork on last night, so I still have access for the synch. I've never synched the carbs on this bike but with only two I'm sure it will be trivial to do.

There was a long hose on one of the synch ports, that connected to the fuel pump. I just capped that hose, so I won't have to get in there for that port; I can just hook in to that hose. There's a hose on the other synch port too but I can't see where it goes. I will excavate it and find out. Maybe it's just routed off somewhere and capped as well.

[pi3832.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it will be trivial to do

Don't those sound like famous last words?

But yeah, if it's still partly disassembled, it should be a piece of cake.

[elizilla]

The vacuum ports turned out to be easy to deal with. They both had hoses attached already, and nothing on the other end of the hoses, so I just had to pull the ends out far enough to put the manometer on them.

Unfortunately I had to take off the airbox to reach the synch screw, and I still couldn't turn it without rolling the throttle all the way to the stop. So I ended up turning the bike off and on about six times. And I didn't wait for it to warm up all the way, since I didn't want to run it for that long with no air filter.

But they came into synch pretty quickly. Twins are a complete cakewalk compared to fours, for this stuff. Once they seemed close enough, I put the airbox back on and ran it until it was warm, and monitored the vacuum lines, and they were still within about 1/8" of each other, which is good. They were about 1.5" apart, so that should smooth things out a lot. And with less vibration maybe the new emulsion tubes won't wear out as fast.

[shadowriderhope.livejournal.com]

Hooray! Its TDMlicious! :)

[tomatoe333.livejournal.com]

woohoo!!!!!!

Are the carbs in proper working order now? :-)

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Once you buy a motorcycle you never have to worry about what to do with your spare time.

The rewards seem to be worth the effort though.

[xtatic1.livejournal.com]

Go you!

[thatguychuck.livejournal.com]

Congrats Kathy! I'm looking forward to going riding with you sometime soon.

Hmm... Want to wake up early some Saturday morning and ride to the Ren Fair with me?

[elizilla]

I'm probably going to ride down to WV and meet some V-Strommers this weekend. Whether I take the TDM or the Strom, will depend on whether the rad cap I've ordered actually comes in, and whether it fixes the cooling system issue.

OTOH, if the weather's good, the TDM would be more fun anyway, so I might take it regardless. :-)

[fourgotten.livejournal.com]

Huttah!!!!!

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Congrats on getting the TDM back on the road. How's the V-Strom doing? When I was last in town, it had suddenly and unexpectedly started piddling on the garage floor.

[elizilla]

I have determined that it needs a new radiator cap. I ordered the new rad cap over a week ago but it's still not here. I hope it's not back ordered.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

I hope the part comes in soon, too.

[sendthewolf.livejournal.com]

Gratz! I feel better now, I was about 99.9% sure we put those carbs together properly.

[elizilla]

Well, don't get too excited. It still runs pretty bad. I think I'm going to put the vac fuel pump back in it.

[(Anonymous)]

What are the symptoms?