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Jan. 30th, 2005 11:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
elizillaToday I got a call, out of the blue, from the boy next door. He and I lived next door to each other until I was 16. In the last 22 years I have seen him maybe a dozen times. He only lives about a mile away, and he has been living there for years. I have invited him to things but he doesn't often come, and when he does, I don't think he enjoys himself.
When we were kids he was a very creative, funny guy, kind of a class clown. He was a year ahead of me in school but our school was small, and we ran with the same crowd, there were eight or ten of us geeky kids who hung out in the library. We read the same books, and played games involving superballs and those wooden sticks they hang newspapers on, and the boys played D&D. He was always coming up with some crazy antic and making us all laugh. I always thought he thought I was boring, but maybe it was just his insecurities, I dunno.
Anyway, he called out of the blue and we went out to lunch. We exchanged the latest news about our families, our jobs, recent news in our lives. His parents are in Florida. His younger sister is in New York. He himself has been teaching school, he teaches a special computer based class to ten year olds in four different schools. He likes his job but he worries because so many kids come from single parent homes and don't get much involvement from that one parent. He does stand-up comedy and he's good at it, he has fun.
Eventually that wound down. And suddenly he burst out to tell me what was on his mind. He wanted to talk about how sad he is that he is still alone. Why can't he get into a relationship? Why do women just blow him off? He's tried everything. Personal ads. Internet sites. Getting set up by friends. Going out to jazz clubs and trying to meet women there. He joined a group (the Jewish Volunteers League, something like that) but he wasn't that interested in the things they volunteered for, he just wanted to meet women and it didn't work so after a few months he dropped out. He tried speed dating and the first time, he found three of the women interesting, and one of them found him interesting so they went out twice but then she wouldn't go again. He said that speed dating was fun so he went a dozen more times, and those times he simply marked himself as interested in ALL the women, and none of them wanted him.
I asked him some questions and found out that recently, he went out with some woman for six months and then he broke up with her. He felt bad because he only went that far in the first place because he didn't want to be alone, and he realized she was getting too attached to him and he couldn't get attached to her so he broke up with her. I couldn't get him to give me any details about her except there was something wrong with her hair.
He thought maybe he should move to New York, there might be more women there. He had this theory that 38 year old males are at a demographic disadvantage in the midwest.
I wished I had some wisdom to offer. On the one hand I wanted to tell him he was too picky, and the other hand I wanted to say he wasn't picky enough. If he's going speed dating and marking the card for every woman there, how can he persuade one of them that she is special? There's a word for guys who find all women interchangeable: Desperate. Which is the kiss of death. Women don't want a guy who sees them as interchangeable. But on the other hand, he probably hadn't ought to be discarding someone because of her hair. (There's got to be more to that story!)
I also wanted to tell him he needs to participate wholeheatedly in these activities for real, not just to find women. It's never going to work if he takes up, say, ballroom dancing, and then does it like he's getting his teeth drilled. Everyone responds better to someone who is having fun. But he seemed so obsessed with his search that I fear all he could do is fake having fun at the activity, which doesn't work.
I did point out to him that all these kids who live in homes with no fathers, have mothers who are likely around his age, and who may not get out much to non-kid-related activities. This may be the source of his demographic problem, why there don't seem to be any single women available. A large portion of those single thirty-something females are tied down with kids. I suggested he try harder to meet the parents of his students.
But sheesh, there is altogether too much of this stuff going on. The unattached women my age are all sick of looking, they're taking up with each other, or going home to their cats, or throwing their relationship energy into some sort of community service. The unattached guys are sitting home being passive and pining for relationships. WTF?
My friend says he thinks he might get a dog so he would not be alone. I think that would be good because it would at least prevent him from staying in his apartment all the time. It would make him get out more if he got one that needed a lot of exercise and training, like a border collie or something. But he's looking for an older, calmer, pre-trained dog. He's got no prior pet experience so I suppose the pre-trained dog would be best. I hope he finds a good one.
When we were kids he was a very creative, funny guy, kind of a class clown. He was a year ahead of me in school but our school was small, and we ran with the same crowd, there were eight or ten of us geeky kids who hung out in the library. We read the same books, and played games involving superballs and those wooden sticks they hang newspapers on, and the boys played D&D. He was always coming up with some crazy antic and making us all laugh. I always thought he thought I was boring, but maybe it was just his insecurities, I dunno.
Anyway, he called out of the blue and we went out to lunch. We exchanged the latest news about our families, our jobs, recent news in our lives. His parents are in Florida. His younger sister is in New York. He himself has been teaching school, he teaches a special computer based class to ten year olds in four different schools. He likes his job but he worries because so many kids come from single parent homes and don't get much involvement from that one parent. He does stand-up comedy and he's good at it, he has fun.
Eventually that wound down. And suddenly he burst out to tell me what was on his mind. He wanted to talk about how sad he is that he is still alone. Why can't he get into a relationship? Why do women just blow him off? He's tried everything. Personal ads. Internet sites. Getting set up by friends. Going out to jazz clubs and trying to meet women there. He joined a group (the Jewish Volunteers League, something like that) but he wasn't that interested in the things they volunteered for, he just wanted to meet women and it didn't work so after a few months he dropped out. He tried speed dating and the first time, he found three of the women interesting, and one of them found him interesting so they went out twice but then she wouldn't go again. He said that speed dating was fun so he went a dozen more times, and those times he simply marked himself as interested in ALL the women, and none of them wanted him.
I asked him some questions and found out that recently, he went out with some woman for six months and then he broke up with her. He felt bad because he only went that far in the first place because he didn't want to be alone, and he realized she was getting too attached to him and he couldn't get attached to her so he broke up with her. I couldn't get him to give me any details about her except there was something wrong with her hair.
He thought maybe he should move to New York, there might be more women there. He had this theory that 38 year old males are at a demographic disadvantage in the midwest.
I wished I had some wisdom to offer. On the one hand I wanted to tell him he was too picky, and the other hand I wanted to say he wasn't picky enough. If he's going speed dating and marking the card for every woman there, how can he persuade one of them that she is special? There's a word for guys who find all women interchangeable: Desperate. Which is the kiss of death. Women don't want a guy who sees them as interchangeable. But on the other hand, he probably hadn't ought to be discarding someone because of her hair. (There's got to be more to that story!)
I also wanted to tell him he needs to participate wholeheatedly in these activities for real, not just to find women. It's never going to work if he takes up, say, ballroom dancing, and then does it like he's getting his teeth drilled. Everyone responds better to someone who is having fun. But he seemed so obsessed with his search that I fear all he could do is fake having fun at the activity, which doesn't work.
I did point out to him that all these kids who live in homes with no fathers, have mothers who are likely around his age, and who may not get out much to non-kid-related activities. This may be the source of his demographic problem, why there don't seem to be any single women available. A large portion of those single thirty-something females are tied down with kids. I suggested he try harder to meet the parents of his students.
But sheesh, there is altogether too much of this stuff going on. The unattached women my age are all sick of looking, they're taking up with each other, or going home to their cats, or throwing their relationship energy into some sort of community service. The unattached guys are sitting home being passive and pining for relationships. WTF?
My friend says he thinks he might get a dog so he would not be alone. I think that would be good because it would at least prevent him from staying in his apartment all the time. It would make him get out more if he got one that needed a lot of exercise and training, like a border collie or something. But he's looking for an older, calmer, pre-trained dog. He's got no prior pet experience so I suppose the pre-trained dog would be best. I hope he finds a good one.
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no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 02:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 02:39 pm (UTC)It was definitely a curious mixture of over-pickiness and indiscriminacy.
I wish him all the luck in the world.
Date: 2005-01-31 02:15 pm (UTC)It may well be a search heuristic issue, too. If he's got rule out factors which truly aren't deal breakers, he may be discarding a lot of women with real potential without even being aware of it.
Re: I wish him all the luck in the world.
Date: 2005-01-31 02:53 pm (UTC)He needs to choose someone he likes, not try to like someone after he's already started to go out with them. Most people don't want to go out with someone that hasn't yet thought about whether they even liked them.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 04:45 pm (UTC)It sounds like he's starting out wanting it to work out, and hoping he'll like the person. The other person certainly wouldn't come into it in the same way, and we don't have arranged marriages here.
People have to start out liking the other person in the beginning, and build upon that, or there's no fall-back when things get "interesting" and even "difficult." There's nothing to build, even for the first few weeks and months. *shrug* Another state isn't going to help him, or a dog, or even volunteering, in his state of mind.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 07:23 pm (UTC)Friends are still the best way although putting the singles together in groups is better than a match up I think.
"A large portion of those single thirty-something females are tied down with kids."
That applies to fortysomethings too! Its esp. true in smaller cites and towns. He could try coaching a sport he likes.
"I suggested he try harder to meet the parents of his students."
Not a good move he wants to meet the parents of his former students otherwise there might be a rule against it.
The Search
Date: 2005-01-31 08:08 pm (UTC)IMO, the basis for a lasting relationship is friendship. Without that, you have nothing to fall back on when times get tough. Let's face it, life isn't always sunshine and roses.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 08:50 pm (UTC)This is totally true, but you're talking about pining guys who feel an emptiness inside that they need to fill. Not the ones living full lives, for whom the loss of a potential romantic partner is no big deal. Most monogamists are like your friend: all about the destination and couldn't give a flip about the journey. This is 99% of humans. Why not make friends with everybody one meets, and if romantic interest develops, then it develops? And if it doesn't, it wasn't meant to. I have to wonder whether he has a full slate of activities of vital personal non-romantic interest to him, and a wide range of non-romantic friends and relationships.
The answer to your "WTF?" could be that women and men don't want the same thing from relationships. Men and women might be made wrong for each other and gays might be lucky in this respect. This is just a hypothesis about which I would enjoy discussion.
Dying old and alone is on everybody's mind. I see it on TV, on LJ, in all kinds of conversations. Why does it hold no horror for me? Are my friends really all going to abandon me for their spouses and kids and that's why I'd end up alone without them? Why do I not hear the music in the musical chairs of love, while everyone else panicks about diving for a chair? Another hypothesis occurs to me: maybe I'm an idiot. Maybe it just hasn't struck home in my mind yet:
#1. Life-extension is going to come along too late for me to live for centuries.
#2. Since I'm not an AI or an alien, I do not stand outside of human nature as a critical observer who is able to reject the stupid parts.
#3 Therefore from #1 I need to hurry up, and from #2 I need to get with the program of the "biological clock," and have a home and family like everybody else.
Points to ponder.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 09:56 pm (UTC)Ah. speaking as a current monogamist who has tried it both ways but feels more comfortable focusing my romantic love and attention on one person at a time but has relatively little problem with the idea of being single for the rest of my life (in fact I kind of like the idea a fair amount of the time) - that is a blatantly overstated generalization.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-01 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-02 06:08 am (UTC)You nailed it right there. Men are the same about this.
A person has to learn to accept who they are before they can get anyone else to accept them.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-04 03:53 pm (UTC)The things you've observed about your friend ring true to me. I've had a number of friends over the years who had (and still have) really idealized mate-expectations, yet very little actual experience with dating, or even getting to know people of the preferred sex in a 'romantic' fashion. The advice I've given has always been the same: know yourself, like yourself, enjoy yourself, enjoy the things you're doing for their own sake, and only then will someone else want to be with you. (Not that it's a guarantee, but the other stuff has to be there first.)
Do they listen? Almost never. The kind of people who have a tightly constrained pre-conceived notion of what their Relationship ought to be seem to be incapable of stepping outside themselves enough to realize that there's a person on the other end of that scenario. And it's a rare bird indeed who actually *wants* to be Tab A (significant other) inserted into Slot B (empty hole in someone's life).
On dogs as companions...
Tell your friend that puppies are chick magnets. Also, learning to raise a puppy will make him go through things that will help him become more of a person that is interesting to women. Also, dog training classes might be a good social venue.